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TDKMate
New Member
USA
24 Posts |
 Posted - August 02 2014 : 15:09:02
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Hi All,
I'm new here and new to Macrium Reflect. I would really appreciate some guidance as, over the years, I've never had any success in restoring a backup from any of my previous backup programs.
In brief, I'm going to install a new OS drive. In searching around it seems to be a simple process IF it's a one-to-one drive swap. But I found a ton of horror stories (including my own in the past) when there's more involved like I currently have.
In more detail: I ordered a 1TB SSD (I'm new to SSD drives, too). I want to partition it up into two 500GB drives, with the first partition being my new 'C' drive.
My current set up has two 4TB drives. The first one (which includes the OS on the 'C' drive) is split up into three partitions. The 'C' partition is set to 500GB. The second drive is split into two partitions.
To complicate matters, I have programs scattered all over all partitions, which allows me to have a relatively small 'C' partition.
I would like to keep my current OS partition in tack for a redundant backup until all is proven good and reliable over time (a week? a month? I have to get some confidence in the SSD). Then I'll expand it out into storage and programs.
So how do I go about doing this? Do I put the SSD in with the other drives and clone it over? (I assume Reflect will do this.) Will leaving the current OS drive in the computer cause conflicts?
Or do I do a backup of my current OS drive, put the SSD in, then restore to the SSD? Would making an Image file be a better route?
I assume whether I have backup or image file on an external USB hard drive that it will be found if I use a rescue disk? (I've made one but have not tested it to see if it will boot.)
I would like the new drive to fire up like it was my old drive, but faster. But I've read horror stories where drivers and the like still need to be installed after a clone; I want to avoid that if possible.
I am clueless on the correct way to proceed, and I have to admit I'm quite nervous given my 100% failure rate in the past.
Any and all help is appreciated!!
Thanks.
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Arvy
Advanced Member
Canada
494 Posts |
Posted - August 02 2014 : 20:30:55
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You should be okay if you just take it one step at a time. For myself, I generally prefer full drive imaging and selective restoration rather than direct drive-to-drive 'cloning' as it provides a backup that may be useful again later. But that's just my own preference.
Your objective seems clear enough. But your mentioning of only three existing partitions on your system drive and your "100% failure rate" make me wonder if you are fully aware of all partitions that must be recreated on the new SSD for booting Windows in UEFI mode.
Especially on drives that use GPT partitioning (as those over 2.2 TB must for full usage) there's more involved than just the obvious OS partition that is normally assigned 'drive letter' C: within Windows itself. Other partitions that are essential for booting Windows in UEFI mode have no assigned 'drive letters' at all.
In any case, before you proceed, you may need to review some basics about Windows installations and partitioning. Some useful FAQs about large drive GPT partitioning are available at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/dn640535 v=vs.85 .aspx.
Regards, Richard |
Edited by - Arvy on August 02 2014 20:55:31 |
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Drac144
Advanced Member
USA
647 Posts |
Posted - August 02 2014 : 21:34:14
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I may be reading too much into your description of your partitions, but if you have "programs scattered all over all partitions" those programs may not work and other processes may not run if the new setup does not have ALL the same partitions that your current system has. The new partitions don't have to be the same size as the current ones, but if any program resides on or references files on a partition that no longer exists, your system will crash - or get errors.
I also have a bunch of partitions - which has many advantages. but if I created a system with fewer partitions I would have to ensure that the drive letters of the new partitions matched the drive letter that partition had previously and I never referenced partitions that no longer exist.
You might be better off partitioning your new SSD exactly the same as your current first drive (with smaller sizes for partitions if needed). You could disconnect your current first drive and keep it "just in case" until you are sure your new setup is working well.
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Gork
Advanced Member
USA
650 Posts |
Posted - August 02 2014 : 23:34:30
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| Is there a way to assign two drive letters to one partition in the OS? An "aka drive letter," per se? Beyond getting down and dirty with something like that, as had been said, there is no easy way I'm aware of to do as op is asking if program installations (as opposed to just "data files") exist on all three original partitions. There would have to be uninstalls of programs on at least one of those partitions and reinstalls after imaging. And if some of those installs had bits on other partitions it could get even more complicated if those bits needed to be restored and recognized by their parent programs. |
Edited by - Gork on August 02 2014 23:39:25 |
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Drac144
Advanced Member
USA
647 Posts |
Posted - August 03 2014 : 00:32:22
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There used to be a command in DOS that could assign an alias to a folder or drive. I am not if there is a windows equivalent - but maybe a "Mount" command like is used when viewing Reflect partitions.
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TDKMate
New Member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - August 03 2014 : 03:04:19
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Wow, thanks for all the replies!! I apologize that in my attempt to be brief I left out too much.
quote:
Originally posted by ArvyYou should be okay if you just take it one step at a time. For myself, I generally prefer full drive imaging and selective restoration rather than direct drive-to-drive 'cloning' as it provides a backup that may be useful again later. But that's just my own preference.
That sounds like a good idea. To make sure I understand, if I image the whole drive that contains the ‘C’ partition plus two other partitions, I can restore just the ‘C’ drive to the new SSD?
quote:
Your objective seems clear enough. But your mentioning of only three existing partitions on your system drive and your "100% failure rate" make me wonder if you are fully aware of all partitions that must be recreated on the new SSD for booting Windows in UEFI mode.
Especially on drives that use GPT partitioning (as those over 2.2 TB must for full usage) there's more involved than just the obvious OS partition that is normally assigned 'drive letter' C: within Windows itself. Other partitions that are essential for booting Windows in UEFI mode have no assigned 'drive letters' at all.
Good catch! Yes, on the OS drive I made three partitions and Windows made a 100MB “EFI System Partition” for a total of four. Sorry for the omission. On the other hard drive (both are 4TB) there are only the two partitions I made and no EFI partition.
Does that mean when I format the SSD I should set it aw UEFI and not MBR so all is included? or does the restore take care of this for me?
(My failures in restoring the OS drive has been with systems long gone and of different configurations. This will be my first attempt with the system.)
quote:
In any case, before you proceed, you may need to review some basics about Windows installations and partitioning. Some useful FAQs about large drive GPT partitioning are available at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/dn640535 v=vs.85 .aspx.
Thanks for the link; I will check it out.
Please see my reply to Drac144 for my current idea on partition; it might not be all that handy for this…
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TDKMate
New Member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - August 03 2014 : 03:11:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Drac144
I may be reading too much into your description of your partitions, but if you have "programs scattered all over all partitions" those programs may not work and other processes may not run if the new setup does not have ALL the same partitions that your current system has. The new partitions don't have to be the same size as the current ones, but if any program resides on or references files on a partition that no longer exists, your system will crash - or get errors.
I have different partitions for different ‘functions.’ Like video and photo editing, one for games and miscellaneous, and so on; hence my 'scattered' programs. My system for this is I maintain the same drive letters for each partition and have been successful in installing larger drives when I needed more room, but I normally leave ‘C’ drive alone. Heck, on one computer I had 7 physical drives, and a lot more partitions, with the aid of expansion card. With the size of drives now, I reduced all that to 2 physical drives and put several data only partitions together.
quote:
I also have a bunch of partitions - which has many advantages. but if I created a system with fewer partitions I would have to ensure that the drive letters of the new partitions matched the drive letter that partition had previously and I never referenced partitions that no longer exist.
The final plan is to have only one additional partition: the second 500GB partition on the SSD. I will temporarily assign it as drive ‘Z’ while it’s empty and everything is worked out.
The fly in the ointment might be the old ‘C’ drive, which I was thinking of leaving intact until all is done, then expand/join it with the partition behind it. That is beginning to sound like not too good of an idea. Plus it would temporarily add one more partition until I expand it.
quote:
You might be better off partitioning your new SSD exactly the same as your current first drive (with smaller sizes for partitions if needed). You could disconnect your current first drive and keep it "just in case" until you are sure your new setup is working well.
Unfortunately, I won’t be able to do that as the non-OS partitions have about 2TB of data/programs on them and won’t fit on the SSD. (Wouldn't it be nice to afford a 4TB SSD?!! LOL)
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Edited by - TDKMate on August 03 2014 03:12:27 |
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tim
Regular Poster
United Kingdom
91 Posts |
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Arvy
Advanced Member
Canada
494 Posts |
Posted - August 03 2014 : 11:42:03
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quote:
Originally posted by TDKMate
That sounds like a good idea. To make sure I understand, if I image the whole drive that contains the ‘C’ partition plus two [three or more?] other partitions, I can restore just the ‘C’ drive to the new SSD?
From a complete backup image of the drive, Reflect will let you choose what you want to restore, and also where to restore it provided the target has sufficient capacity. It will also allow you to adjust partition size. (See http://kb.macrium.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50079.aspx for more info.)
In order for your new SSD to be bootable, however, it needs more than just that single OS ("C:") partition alone. It also needs the system partition(s) without any drive letter assigned by Windows. See http://kb.macrium.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50049.aspx and http://www.macrium.com/help/v5/How_to/Restore/Restore_Disks_and_Partitions.htm.
Regards, Richard |
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TDKMate
New Member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - August 03 2014 : 14:58:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Arvy
...snip...
In any case, before you proceed, you may need to review some basics about Windows installations and partitioning. Some useful FAQs about large drive GPT partitioning are available at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/dn640535 v=vs.85 .aspx.
Regards, Richard
I read the link and I’ll admit a lot of it is over my head, at least in this point in time. Good read, however. One of my takeaways is that now-a-days all drives should be formatted in GPT.
quote:
From a complete backup image of the drive, Reflect will let you choose what you want to restore, and also where to restore it provided the target has sufficient capacity. It will also allow you to adjust partition size. (See http://kb.macrium.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50079.aspx for more info.)
In order for your new SSD to be bootable, however, it needs more than just that single OS ("C:") partition alone. It also needs the system partition(s) without any drive letter assigned by Windows. See http://kb.macrium.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50049.aspx and http://www.macrium.com/help/v5/How_to/Restore/Restore_Disks_and_Partitions.htm.
I was only able to briefly look at these 3 links as I have to run out and take care of some things today. I will come back to them as I'll have to spend some "quality time" reading/studying them.
Thanks |
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Arvy
Advanced Member
Canada
494 Posts |
Posted - August 03 2014 : 15:46:10
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Well, don't worry too much about minor details. The key points are:
(a) yes, Reflect will let you restore partitions selectively from a complete drive image; and
(b) you need to expand your focus somewhat to include "unlettered" system partitions (not just that single OS "C:" partition) if you want to end up with a bootable SSD.
Regards, Richard |
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TDKMate
New Member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - August 05 2014 : 01:06:24
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Thanks for the tips, I will remember them.
Well... it's going to be a while before I can actually get to this project  The SSD I got was somehow mislabeled: it was actually a 128GB drive labeled as a 1TB drive, so I sent it back. I rarely have to RMA an item, but it still seems to always take a month to get back.
I checked out those links and followed some YouTube videos on the subject. (The 3rd link didn't work but I easily found it in the KB.)
I think I figured out how to over come the problem of leaving the old 'C' drive installed so the other partitions (with programs) will work with the new OS drive: I have a several Seagate GoFlex external backup drives long out of warranty, so I'll just crack one of them open and copy the other two partitions over to them.
The drawback to this is that, from my online research, that the drive will may longer work in the GoFlex after it's been formatted in Windows so I might loose a GoFlex in the process.
Then that leaves me with how to get these temporary partitions back on the 4TB drive that's currently in my computer with the original 'C' Drive.
By that I mean how would I take partitions from a MBR 2TB (the GoFlex) drive and put them on a 4TB drive that needs the OS removed and is formatted in GPT?
I assume I just reformat the drive in GPT to wipe out the OS, create the two needed partitions, but then will Reflect automatically format the 4TB correctly when I restore the image to it?
Any ideas or thoughts on this? |
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Arvy
Advanced Member
Canada
494 Posts |
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Seekforever
Advanced Member
Canada
640 Posts |
Posted - August 05 2014 : 13:39:20
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If you save your partitions as images then they are stored in a file or files and these files should be able to be stored on your GoFlex drives without any changes to the drive. I say that assuming the included GoFlex backup software does not get in the way.
Since they say the GoFlex drives work with either Windows or Mac it is very likely they come formatted FAT32 instead of NTFS. This means your images will automatically be split into a series of 4GB slices since 4GB is the maximum file size for FAT32. This causes no problems, Reflect will automatically split when creating and combine when restoring. |
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TDKMate
New Member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - August 06 2014 : 01:35:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Arvy
I suppose you are aware that you can hide a partition (remove any assigned 'drive letter') using either Windows Disk Management (http://www.7tutorials.com/how-hide-or-dismount-partition-windows) or DISKPART (http://forum.thewindowsclub.com/windows-tips-tutorials-articles/31678-how-hide-show-your-hard-drive-partitions-using-diskpart.html).
Regards, Richard
P.S.: Please excuse if I haven't correctly understood what you are trying to accomplish.
Well, yes and no. I kind of knew you could hide a partition from a program I had many years ago; it was an option it had. No, I hadn’t thought about it in this case.
But no, I would have no clue on how to hide the OS drive while it’s running… wouldn’t that render your current Window’s session void?
I do like the idea, though!
Would it go something like this?:
I would boot normally.
Hide ‘C’ drive, leaving the other two necessary partitions intact.
Shut down and install the new drive in the same SATA port as the original ‘C’ partition.
Relocate the old OS drive to another port (duh… I better make sure I have one!)
Fire up the rescue disk and restore from my image file.
I imagine I’d also have to go into the BIOS and make sure the new drive is set to boot.
Assuming there are no problems, it sounds like a good plan. But what happens if there’s a problem? That is to say how do I unhide my original OS partition as wouldn’t Windows not even fire up on a hidden drive?
Very intriguing for sure.
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TDKMate
New Member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - August 06 2014 : 01:37:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Seekforever
If you save your partitions as images then they are stored in a file or files and these files should be able to be stored on your GoFlex drives without any changes to the drive. I say that assuming the included GoFlex backup software does not get in the way.
Since they say the GoFlex drives work with either Windows or Mac it is very likely they come formatted FAT32 instead of NTFS. This means your images will automatically be split into a series of 4GB slices since 4GB is the maximum file size for FAT32. This causes no problems, Reflect will automatically split when creating and combine when restoring.
Again I apologize for not being more clear. Currently I’m saving my image files to the same computer, on the second physical. And yes, shame on me as I haven’t backed them up to an external drive yet. I will have to do that in the next day or so.
That is also to say that I have never installed any GoFlex software, so there’s nothing to get in the way. In fact, I haven‘t had any backup software installed for a whole lot of years until Reflect Pro. I know, not a good idea…
(I read about Reflect free in a computer magazine, Maximum PC, and it was highly recommended. I opted for the pro version as I liked the additional features.)
But it’s good to hear that I can go ahead and backup my image files to a GoFlex and I’m good to go.
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